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Interesting Saitek bug

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sirpuma
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Interesting Saitek bug

Post by sirpuma » 07 Oct 2017, 07:23

I posted this on Simviation hoping to find some help. But getting SPAD.next seemed to help most of my issues except one.

Part 1
Ok, folks, I could use some help here. I'm having problems getting all my Saitek gear to work with FSX.

Here's what I have:
Windows 10 x64
FSX (boxed Gold edition with Acceleration)
Saitek Pro-FLight yoke system with throttle set and rudder.
Saitek FIP (3)
Saitek Radio Panel
Saitek Autopilot Instrument Panel
Saitek Switch Panel
Saitek USB Throttle Quad.

I have successfully used all this before on a Windows 7 x64 system before upgrading to Win10. I know Saitek is gone but were bought out by Logitech and they are supporting this equipment. I've installed all the latest drivers I can find for the Saitek stuff but with just the drivers I can only get the yoke, rudder and throttle quads to work in the game. I've installed SPAD and FSUIPC and while FSUIPC give me greater control over configuring flight controls it doesn't work with the FIP, radio, AP or switches. With SPAD the switches work ok but the AP and radio panels display only about 10 percent of the time and I can't get the FIPs to work at all. They just sit there with their advertising images. I know some of the Saitek drivers clash with SPAD but I don't know what files I'll need to delete out of the controller drivers and what I need to keep and I have no clue how to get the FIPs working.

HALP!! :?

Part 2
The newest SPAD got it all working, sort of. The FIPs work ok, but functionality of the actual instrument through the FIP (like adjusting heading bugs or ILS bugs don't work right). The radio works fine, if I unplug it and plug it back in now and then. Switch Panel works fine. The multi panel is weird. It will either have all the knobs and buttons work fine manipulating the stuff in game with the instrument display not working, or the display will work but the buttons and knobs don't.

Sir Puma

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c0nnex
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Re: Interesting Saitek bug

Post by c0nnex » 07 Oct 2017, 10:01

You have a USB powering issue for sure. Saitek devices are very power hungry (specially FIP and the Multipanel)

Make sure all Devices are connected to a USB 2.0 HUB which is connected to a USB 2.0 PORT on your PC. No matter what other people say, no matter if it works for some people. Saitek Flight devices do not support USB 3.0 and are not USB 3.0 compatible.
Also make sure the in the Windows Device Manager the USB Power-Management features are disabled for all Devices the have the word "hub" in it under USB-Devices
hub1.png
Rule of Thumb:
Also the Hub the dewvices are connected to must be able to provide (number_Of_devices)*1.0 + 0.5 A of power.
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sirpuma
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Re: Interesting Saitek bug

Post by sirpuma » 08 Oct 2017, 00:51

I tried your advice, no dice. It sounded plausible, but it doesn't matter what USB ports I have the various gauges plugged into, the results are the same. I have mostly USB 3.0 on my MB but there is a couple 2.0. I also have an external powered USB hub. I've tried just about every combination of ports and it still boils down to the actual panel display on the multi panel not displaying. It's backlit, but no data is displayed.

Also, on the switch panel, the fuel pump switch will turn the fuel pump on, but not off. Both these panels worked before I upgraded to SPAD.next, though the FIPs didn't.

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Re: Interesting Saitek bug

Post by thedazman » 08 Oct 2017, 02:00

Have you programmed the multipanle display? Or downloaded a snippet?

FIPs NEED 500mah of power each. You have three FIP so need a PSU of at least 1.5amps assuming nothing else is plugged in the the hub.

How many port on the hub are you using and what is the amp rating of the hub PSU?

Also you must not turn off power to hub while PC is on. Hub must be turned on before PC and off after PC at anytime the hub has no power and hub is connected to PC the PC will attempt to power the devices and fails and crashes the FIPs.

Daz
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Re: Interesting Saitek bug

Post by sirpuma » 08 Oct 2017, 06:18

The hub gets whatever power it does from a single USB port on the computer plus the 2.5 amp power adapter. I have 8 items plugged into it with a total of 13 ports. (kbd, flight yoke, throttle, radio, switches and 3 FIPs.) The multi panel is plugged directly into the computer on its own usb hub.

I've looked at the configuration for the multi panel and it says it's configured to display the stuff for each selector setting. I haven't downloaded any configurations for anything. SPAD seems to have detected the stuff and set some default settings.

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Re: Interesting Saitek bug

Post by thedazman » 08 Oct 2017, 11:00

you say the multi panel is connected DIRECTLY into the computer on it's own HUB? it's either on a HUB or Directly ?

Really don't understand how a 13 port hub would come with a 2.5amp PSU, that's only 192mah per port !(if you were to use all ports. Anyway, the FIPs and Radio will use 2000mah of that leaving just 500mah for the other 9 ports.

I'm assuming the USB hub is a 2.0 hub connects to a usb2.0 port on the PC as c0nnex suggests.

As long as the FIP's aren't crashing you should have enough power in light that the multipanel is not running through the HUB, but this ALSO needs to be on a USB2.0 port.

If you used the auto configure then the panel should be programmed to work with STOCK aircraft out of the box.

No idea why the gauges seems to function but buttons and dials not working, I assume you are using the Saitek gauges bundled with SPAD.neXt? you may have issues if you are trying to use the original Saitek saved elsewhere on your PC.

I would connect the multipanel DIRECTLY DIRECTLY into your PC, disconnect everything else other than your keyboard ;-) the only other thing I can think of is the multipanel might be virtually switched off in SPAD.neXt, check the device settings.

Daz
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Re: Interesting Saitek bug

Post by sirpuma » 08 Oct 2017, 21:21

In the hardware of a mainboard you have USB Root hubs. There's usually 3 or 4 depending on whether or not the mainboard is deisgned USB 3.0 or 3.1 along with the 2.0. Generally there are two connectors on MB for USB 2.0 which many cases have as top end ports. My mainboard has 2 USB 2.0 root hubs (I have one connected to a dual case top port and one connected to a dual port card on the back) Then I have 2 3.0 root hubs (one for on-board ports and one for case ports) and a 3.1 root hub. I have a powered external hub which has it's own power source, but also gets power from the computer port. So on the back of the computer I have 2 USB2.0 ports, 5 USB3.0 ports 1 USB3.1 port and on the top I have 2 USB2.0 ports and 2 USB3.0 ports. The external hub has 13 USB2.0 ports. My MBs USB3.0 root hub is backward compatible with USB2.0.

So, now that my USB design is described, I'll go to my next phase of testing. Last night I gave up. I uninstalled EVERYTHING. I dug around till I rooted out all the Saitek drivers, uninstalled SPAD and FSUIPC, uninstalled the game, uninstalled all the Logitec software for the stuff. And now I'm starting from scratch.

After installing the game and acceleration I set a restore point so I can go back if needed. I installed all the newer Logitech drivers and software so I could test the multi-panel and make sure it wasn't actually a faulty LED, and everything tests ok, but only the yoke/rudder/throttle works in game.

So currently I have the FIPs plugged into USB3.0 ports on the back of the computer, Rudder is plugged into the Yoke, Yoke is plugged into the external hub along with the Switch Panel, Radio Panel, Extra Throttle Quad and my G910 Keyboard. External hub is plugged into a 3.0 port on top of the computer and the Multi-Panel is plugged into the 3.0 port on top. I don't see any difference between connecting to 3.0 vs 2.0 ports on the computer.

Next I'm going to test with previous versions of SPAD and FSUIPC. As I said, everything worked fine before in Win7 with the previous versions of the connection software.

The problem with the Multi-Panel is the buttons and knobs work fine and manipulate the appropriate functions in game but the display won't display the info and if I unplug it from the USB and plug it back in with everything running, it will display a static readout but buttons/knobs don't work. Nothing crashes. FIPS display fine, though the new SPAD.next uses the two arrow buttons by default for selecting gauges configured in SPAD and I used to use the 6 buttons on the side of the FIP. The only problem I have with the Radio Panel is the outer knob on the lower half doesn't work properly and is twitchy (it's a hardware issue). I'm sure the problem ultimately is a matter of configuration and compatibility.

Puma

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Re: Interesting Saitek bug

Post by sirpuma » 08 Oct 2017, 22:54

I am positive it's a configuration and compatibility issue. After installing all the latest Logitech/Saitek drivers and then FSUIPC with no functionality of the FIP/Radio/Multi-panel/Switches I decided to go out on a limb and dig around in the garage till I found the original CDs that came with the equipment. Installed the original software/drivers on top of all the latest stuff and BINGO. Now initially I was back to square one with the multi-panel not displaying, but I unplugged it and plugged it back in and BAM, Bob's your uncle. So no SPAD, with FSUIPC, original software and drivers mixed with newest drivers. Now to go through the FSUIPC configs.

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Re: Interesting Saitek bug

Post by thedazman » 11 Oct 2017, 14:48

Probably best to raise a ticket via spad app, you might have a conflict between the saitek/Logitech drivers and spad. Get you logs added to ticket.

I do not have any drivers other than spad installed and my 11 FIPs and multipanel work fine with current release. I also use usb 3.0 myself but just because it seems to work we shouldn’t and my FIPs crash often as a result but I suffer that because I have no usb 2.0 ports. But the advice is 100% sound

Daz
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